DJGold

SteveCie

More and more, venues are outlawing the use of Fog and Haze machines.
In the advent of LED Special Effects Fixtures and Scanners ( which really perform much better with fog / haze), has anyone come across a solution to this problem? Can the manufacturers develope a device that won't set off the Smoke Detectors in the Fire Alarm systems? :?:

CJ Greiner · Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject:

Nope... the best thing to do is to get prior permission to test and use your machine. Detectors these days are mounted in air conditioning ducts and sense particulate (even tiny smoke/haze droplets) and can be set off, depending on how they were calibrated.

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Making sure the light show is interesting to look AT directly, or that it looks good on the walls and ceiling is really the only way to ensure you have something that will look good at all of your venues.

Without fog/smoke/haze...

People can't look AT typical DJ or nightclub-style light shows which include the following lights:

Color-changers - these lights have a small aperture so there's nothing much to look at. You can see the colors on the floor if it's empty, and you can see the colors on the dancers if the beam spread is wide enough, but the dancers themselves don't see much when looking at them unless the beam is pointed directly in their eyes which isn't any good either.
Scanners - if pointed at the dance floor, then you have a similar problem as with color-changers, except when you look at them, you can see the mirror move and change colors (whoop-dee-doo...) and are only really effective when they shine at the wall/ceiling, or again, look cool on an empty dance floor.
Moving Heads - if pointed at the dance floor, then as with scanners, your guests can see the colors change on the lens and it's cool to see the heads move (for a couple of minutes -- another whoop-dee-doo effect...)
LED Par Cans - more advanced than a standard par can since it can be used as a color changer... but when it's used to point directly at the dancers or audience, can be VERY irritating to look at. The teensy points of very intense light are annoying to look at and cause lots of complaints when used at full intensity. (I typically use mine at 15%-20% intensity when pointed at the crowd with no diffuser.)

The same problems are true of all lights that aren't much to look directly at, and focus their effect at some small location on the dance floor.
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Great lights for DJs that can't use smoke/fog/haze include:

Traditional Par Cans - There's approximately 6" to 8" wide of something colorful flashing on and off to the beat of the music, plus they have a fairly wide beam angle and fill the dance floor/ceiling with colored light. These lights are not as irritating to look at since the beam source is much wider. There's also a slight "diffusion" effect caused by the colored gels which helps spread the light over a wider area while easing the intensity when dancers/guests look directly at them.
LED Par Cans with Diffusers - The diffusers make all the difference. Some LED Par Cans are manufactured without a gel holder... so there's not much you can do with those except rig some sort of makeshift diffuser across the front. For the LED Pars with gel holders, all you have to do is insert the diffuser material, and you can run your LEDs at full intensity, get the color-fill effect on the crowd/ceiling and they won't be irritating when the dancers/guests look directly at them.
Scanners/Moving Heads/Color-Changers/Pars/LEDs/Moonflowers/etc. pointed UP the wall, AT the wall or AT the ceiling - stop pointing these effect into your guests eyes, and start pointing them at surfaces where the effects can actually be seen and enjoyed.
LED Bar/Tube Effects - these are made to be looked AT. Enough said.

SteveCie

All very good points CJ.
Thanks for the tips. It's appreciated!

I am currently using 8 PAR 38 fixtures on a sound activated four channel controller. As you said, it is a decent effect and doesn't seem to annoy the guests. I also have four Scanners, and I run them more on the ceiling than on the floor, unless I have smoke.
I am also running the Chauvet Vue III on the back wall and ceiling.

My other fixtures are more traditional and really need the smoke to be effective---American DJ Zodiac, Martin Rainbow II Moonflower, Black Widow Laser.

Guess I'll just have to settle for the fact that smoke is gonna be a thing of the past at most venues.

But it was cool while it lasted....

TheBartman47 · Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject:

CJ Greiner wrote: LED Bar/Tube Effects - these are made to be looked AT. Enough said.
There are getting to be lots more options of these types devices being made now too. Whole panels and such.

Another option is to use a regular video projector connected to your computer and display the visual effects of your music player program on the projector. Most all laptops can dedicate just the external video port as a secondary monitor and then leave the primary screen on the laptop for controlling the music and doing song searches. If you have a rackmount or desktop computer, then you'll need a dual video card.

CJ Greiner · Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject:

That's a good point -- I use several different DJ programs -- all capable of showing video. Most of them can be set up to show slide shows or background "ambient" videos when not playing a music video. Some also have other special visual effects that can be shown on the screen.

If all you do is ambient and effects, you don't even need to use a traditional screen. You can point the projector at a piece of spandex, or even directly on one of the walls. The image doesn't have to be crystal-clear since it's just there for the visual effect.

sddj

I find that a lot of venues around my area still allow haze, we've never used fog machines...but usually, you have to ask and know your facility and facility manager to get the approval. A lot of times the bartenders or service staff don't know what they are talking about.

I'd say it's about 50/50 in the halls & banquet facilities we play in most often. My rule of thumb, if the hall allows cig or pipe smoke, they'll allow haze to be used... if not, you've got a hell of an argument why they allow smoking, but not haze...

Some of the newer one's, where they have banned smoking for the guests are one's that we know we'll never be allowed to use the Martin Hazers.

Nick from New Zealand · Joined: September 20th, 2007 Posts: 3

Sorry I'm late....

LED par cans used as uplights are probably the most effective way to go. They can turn the entire room (walls and ceiling) into one great big lighting effect. The room changes colour, and everything in it. Subtle, non distracting, and cheap. :)

TheBartman47 · Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:30 am Post subject:

Here's something prety cool, but not too practical (or safe)... a Ruben's tube...
http://www.flixxy.com/rubens-tube-frequency-of-fire.htm

dokai · Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:43 am Post subject:

Very cool application of physics! Thanks for sharing, Bartman.

I agree with Nick that uplighting is very effective and inexpensive. However, I'm not fully convinced that the impact of lights pointed at the dancers is as insignificant as the rest of you seem to think. Sure, without fog you can't see the beams as "solid" things being swept through the air, but that's only one part of the impact.

Keep in mind that even while they're dancing, they can see movement around them in the form of the other dancers. And if those other dancers are changing colors in time with the music, etc., isn't that going to be more entertaining and engaging than just seeing a bunch of other people dancing nearby?

My philosophy is we should be trying to focus everyone not dancing (observers) on the dancefloor while we make the dancefloor look as appealing as possible. Afer all, we're trying to draw the observers out of their seats and get them to dance. Playing music videos only entertains those people that aren't dancing - dancers are too busy to watch videos. Not to mention that a person dancing with a partner should be focused on THEM, not a video screen. (More on video screens and music videos later.)

Why would we want our dancefloor to be the only area in the room without the additonal color and movement a lightshow provides? An empty dancefloor looks more inviting to observers when it has lots of lights playing across it. (I'm not talking "well illuminated". It should be dark, of course, but have lots of moving light patterns.) A partially filled dancefloor looks more active with lots color and movement. A full dancefloor looks better with lots of color and movement. Shining lights onto the walls and ceiling only pulls the focus away from the dancefloor, imho. Allowing the lights to spill over into the rest of the room isn't so bad, as the dancefloor is still the center of the movement and color.

I think video screens are great for non-dance moments during wedding receptions (slideshows, etc.) I also think video screens are great for the VH-1 generation that have been fed music videos all their lives (proms, homecomings, etc.) But music videos require you to WATCH them, and are too much of a distraction. How many of us have seen a bunch of teenagers pretending to dance, swaying passively back and forth, while their eyes are glued to a video screen? I saw it quite a bit before I changed my screen layout.

For proms, I use my video screens off of each side of the dancefloor, at 45 degree angles, with the lighting in the middle pointed AT the dancefloor. This creates a blunted-V shaped work area behind the lights and between the video screens. This draws the focus of the observers toward the dancefloor. However, once they're on the dancefloor, they can't see the video screens well, thereby preventing them from slipping into slack-jawed passive video-zombie mode. Ambient video is even better because it registers as color and movement, but doesn't require the focus that a music video does. Ambient video also has zero chances of having offensive content, which is important at school functions.

One other thing about the above arrangement: the semi-isolation it creates helps prevent students from getting underfoot. They seem to be willing to walk up to the front of the "booth", under the lightshow, to make requests, but rarely will one of them walk behind the video screens. Too many years of conditioning against blocking the tv, I guess. :lol: