DJGold

At Last Productions · Joined: August 8th, 2004 Posts: 65 Location: Hephzibah, GA

DBX DRIVERACK-PA EQ/SPEAKER CONTROL SYSTEM

http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl?waGroup1datarq=dbx&eqint_KeyIDdata=31407&UID=2005061912544338&newproduct=T&itemNumber=DRIVERACK-PA%2001

Looking for Opinions on this piece of equipment. I would like to hear from those who have it (and use it). Also your experience with DBX equipment, good, bad or other. I would also purchase the DBX RTAM MICROPHONE to go with it.

I am thinking about buying it to upgrade what I already have. (BEHRINGER CX3400 CROSSOVER )

Wolfie · Joined: October 8th, 2004 Posts: 219 Location: Hartly, DE

DBX offers a fine, professional product. You'll see DBX gear in the finest installations and mobile systems. With that said, you'll pay for it. Professional business equipment doesn't come cheap.

As I understand, the Driverack is an all-in-one front-end processor system. I have read some great reviews on this unit over the years. When we planned our system the Driverack wasn't yet available. Had it been, we'd have saved some investment money and rack space.

We are running a DBX 262 compressor/limiter. It's a sweet unit with all balanced TRS ins and outs.

I hope it helps.

djmc · Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject:

Cali DJ uses the Driverack and says it makes a difference with EAW and Crowns.

I trust his expertise.....many others say the Driverack rocks.

I've seen prices for this unit as low as $400, online.

TheBartman47

Make sure you NEVER turn the driverack on or off while your amps are on. It makes a huge impulse signal that will make your speakers jump right out of their baskets and onto the floor (yeah, exageration, but still).

Also, there are better options than the driverack available, especially if you aren't using Crown amps and EAW or JBL speakers.

However, it kind of depends upon what kind of setup you plan to run. If you just have two speakers running full range on tripod stands, then it would be a total waste of money. But if you are going to a three way speaker setup (subs and a mid/high enclosure per side) and tri-amp your system, then it might be beneficial for you. And again, there are other units to consider besides the driverack. It is my opinion that the driverack is way over-rated. It doesn't even have preset CD horn EQ.

CJ Greiner · Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:56 pm Post subject:

:?:

What other units can compare to the DriveRackPA?

Why would you need a preset CD horn EQ?
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I've heard of the DriveRack "popping" problem too. I've never experienced it myself -- but that might be because they fixed the problem in later models... or perhaps because I use a UPS and have never powered it down with the amp on. :idea:

dokai · Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:29 am Post subject:

I use the Driverack PA, but just for the basics - not to its full potential. It's a great piece of gear: very clean sounding, easy menu navigation, lots of features. When it first came out there was nothing else that was even close. I'd recommend looking around at some of the newer units before you decide to purchase, but wouldn't be surprised if you ended up getting one anyway. A colleague of mine swears by his Behringer Shark DSP110 processors, for example. They're a different approach than the "swiss army knife" model that the Driverack PA follows, but his system sounds pretty good.

TheBartman47 · Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:55 am Post subject:

CJ Greiner wrote: :?:
What other units can compare to the DriveRackPA?

There are several brands available today that are DSP driven. Just shop around is all I'm saying. You might find you prefer Chocolate instead of Vanilla, or you might find out you prefer Vanilla the best all along. "My momma told me, you better shop around..."

Quote:
Why would you need a preset CD horn EQ?

CD (constant directivity) horn equalization is required for speakers with a CD horn, which has been around since the late 70's, and it's a small wonder why some manufactureres STILL do not include it in their crossovers or DSP engines. It would take a while for me to explain the whole CD horn theory, so I'll just suggest looking it up yourself if you're interested, if not, don't worry about it. You can still make your own CD horn EQ adjustments, but you need to understand the principle behind it to do so. A beginner would have no clue about this and then wonder why his system sounded "honky". Also, this only applies if you are bi-amping your top speakers.

At Last Productions · Joined: August 8th, 2004 Posts: 65 Location: Hephzibah, GA

Have any of you ever used the Auto EQ? I know that you have to have a certain type of Microphone. I was wondering if it makes a big difference in sound quality?

CJ Greiner · Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:52 am Post subject:

Hi Bartman -- here's a nice article by Peavey that explains the "special" equalization needed for Constant Directivity horns:
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/soundsystems/horn_eq.cfm

Essentially, CD horns are much more efficient, and can also be "directed" to maintain the highs even when you're not standing directly in front of the speaker.
Great! That's a fantastic reason to use them -- and almost all speakers built since the 80's incorporate them in their design.

However, they don't provide a "flat" response, which means they need an EQ curve applied so that they'll properly reproduce all of the frequencies at the same level as the original source music.
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SO::: the speakers that use them have a circuit in their passive EQ's that provides the "curve" necessary to output a balanced audio response. If you use the full-range inputs on your speakers -- you're set to go!

However, if you bi-amp your 2-way (or tri-amp your three-way) speakers, then that's when you'd be concerned about providing the correct equalization for your speaker's high-range horns. (And don't forget the correct padding!)

If you were to use a standard EQ, then you'd compensate by lowering the high frequencies in a "curve" to balance the levels for each frequency output by your horns.

If you were using an EQ with a "CD" button, then the EQ would apply a standard curve for you. That's pretty nice, but not exactly accurate for every manufacturer's horn.

If you use the DriveRack PA's Auto-Equalize feature with the RTA microphone... then it really doesn't matter what your setup is -- it'll EQ the entire spectrum of sound for you. When you use the Auto-EQ feature, it doesn't matter what components you use. They can be any brand, any style, any setup. It just listens to the output of the entire system (including your speaker's CD horns), it also hears how the room's acoustics affect the levels of all the frequencies, and then provides you automatically with a balanced EQ. (You can customize it to your own taste from there.)

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Ironically, the only other company that has produced anything like the DBX DriveRackPA is Peavey.
Peavey has just announced their new products:
The VSX 26 and VSX 48 Speaker management systems.
http://www.peavey.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/147/20052107.cfm

They're being promoted... but they're not yet available, and the website doesn't give too many details so it's hard to compare them to the DriveRackPA feature-for-feature. I'm sure we'll know more soon.
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Hi stardjandkaraoke -- Yes, you'll want to use the RTA microphone designed for the DriveRackPA. It has a sensitivity at all frequencies that the DriveRack has been pre-programmed for, and using any other microphone will throw off the EQ. Other microphones are not made for this purpose -- they're made for singing or speaking and do not provide the exact same response that the RTA microphone does.

pjlowe · Joined: July 15th, 2005 Posts: 32 Location: Pembroke, MA

Ok so I use two jbl eon g2's and one mackie 1501 powered sub. I run out of my denon mixer into the mackie sub and run the high signal to my eon's. why do I need the dbx rack?? any advice is most appreciated.
pj

CJ Greiner · Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject:

Hi PJ -- You don't "need" it! You have a simple, easy-to-set-up system that probably works great for you.

The powered sub has its own internal crossover that will drive it at its optimum frequency range, and it sounds like you're using the high-pass outputs to drive the "top" speakers. Great!

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You don't need the DriveRackPA for its crossover abilities. You would only want to use it if you needed some of it's other features.

(Click image for more info)

Here's a list of the DriveRackPA features:
Stereo Feedback Elimination with 12 feedback notch filters
Dual 28-band Graphic EQ
Classic dbx® Compressor
120A Sub-harmonic Synthesizer
2x3, 2x4, 2x5, 2x6 Crossover Configurations
Stereo Multi-band Parametric EQ
Stereo Output Limiters
Alignment Delay
Pink Noise Generator
Auto-EQ with 28-band RTA
25 User Programs/25 Factory Programs
2 Channel XLR Input and 6 Channel XLR Output
Front panel RTA-M XLR input with phantom power
24-Bit ADC/24-Bit DAC, >110 dB Dynamic Range
Full Graphic LCD Display

pjlowe · Joined: July 15th, 2005 Posts: 32 Location: Pembroke, MA

CJ
as always thanx for the tip. I always strive for audio "perfection".
I just wanted to confirm my particular set-up.
pj

TheBartman47 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:42 am Post subject:

CJ Greiner wrote: If you use the DriveRack PA's Auto-Equalize feature with the RTA microphone... then it really doesn't matter what your setup is -- it'll EQ the entire spectrum of sound for you. When you use the Auto-EQ feature, it doesn't matter what components you use. They can be any brand, any style, any setup. It just listens to the output of the entire system (including your speaker's CD horns), it also hears how the room's acoustics affect the levels of all the frequencies, and then provides you automatically with a balanced EQ. (You can customize it to your own taste from there.)

I've heard a system that was setup with just the auto EQ settings, and the highs sounded horrible. The auto EQ is only there to get you in a ballpark range. For best results, fine tuning MUST be done, as our ears don't hear sound linearly, so a completely flat system just doesn't sound right.

Quote:
Ironically, the only other company that has produced anything like the DBX DriveRackPA is Peavey.
Peavey has just announced their new products:
The VSX 26 and VSX 48 Speaker management systems.
http://www.peavey.com/news/article.cfm/action/view/id/147/20052107.cfm

They're being promoted... but they're not yet available, and the website doesn't give too many details so it's hard to compare them to the DriveRackPA feature-for-feature. I'm sure we'll know more soon.

Actually, that's Peavey's new DSP engine. They've had the Media Matrix long before DBX even thought about such an animal.

Also, there are other brands available. A quick Google search turned up several different ones. Here's just a few...
Martin Audio DX1
Meyer Sound's "Galileo" model
BSS Products "Omnidrive"
And even Behringer is on the bandwaggon with their "Ultradrive" unit.

As for me, I'm in line for the Peavey VSX unit since it will be better suited for my needs.... 4-way pro concert system. This may be a bit more than what the average DJ needs, but then again, DJs may like it too, but still, my point is shop around and compare features, price, reliability, and testimony of others. You may still end up choosing the DBX driverack, but if you don't shop around, you'll never know if you got the one you like best.

CJ Greiner

Hi Bartman -- we're actually on a similar path here...
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TheBartman47 wrote: I've heard a system that was setup with just the auto EQ settings, and the highs sounded horrible. The auto EQ is only there to get you in a ballpark range. For best results, fine tuning MUST be done, as our ears don't hear sound linearly, so a completely flat system just doesn't sound right.

Quite right -- if you use the "flat" setting then the DriveRack will compensate for everything in your system along with the room's unique acoustics and give you a corrected flat response. That setting should only be used if you're then going to add your own custom EQ to make it sound like you want.

There are three other settings that should be used if you want the DriveRackPA to provide a more "listener-friendly" Auto-EQ response. Each of the settings are slightly different to accommodate different styles of music and different tastes. Even if you use one of these settings, you can still add your own custom EQ and the DriveRackPA will remember everything until the next gig!

The benefit of using the Auto-EQ in addition to your custom setting is so that you can go into any room or venue and auto-EQ to the same settings so that you don't have to ever change your custom-EQ settings once you've got them tweaked in to your liking.

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TheBartman47 wrote: Actually, that's Peavey's new DSP engine. They've had the Media Matrix long before DBX even thought about such an animal.

Also, there are other brands available. A quick Google search turned up several different ones. Here's just a few...
Martin Audio DX1
Meyer Sound's "Galileo" model
BSS Products "Omnidrive"
And even Behringer is on the bandwagon with their "Ultradrive" unit.

Ahhhh.... I see the problem: We're using the term "DSP" (Digital Signal Processor), which refers to just about every audio processing and speaker management unit out there. Perhaps it would be easier if we discussed only the units that have similar features to the DriveRackPA for the purposes of providing feedback in this thread.

All of the units you mentioned above only have two or three of the same features as the DriveRackPA and therefore don't really qualify for direct comparison. They have multiple purposes such as crossover, manual-EQ and possibly signal limiting... but that's about it. You would have to buy 5 or 6 of those manufacturer's other units and install them all in your rack to compare to the features included in the DriveRackPA.

The ONLY units that compare to the DriveRackPA's features are the other units in the DriveRack line. In the near future, the Peavey units I mentioned above may have similar (or even better) features -- but they have to be considered "future-ware" until they're actually released.

As we've discussed, the DriveRackPA has these features that I use that are also provided by some of the units you mentioned above:

2x3, 2x4, 2x5, 2x6 Crossover Configurations
Stereo Multi-band Parametric EQ
Dual 28-band Graphic EQ
Stereo Output Limiters
Classic dbx® Compressor

I also use these other features of the DriveRackPA that aren't provided by those other units, and would require someone to purchase additional devices.

Stereo Feedback Elimination with 12 feedback notch filters
120A Sub-harmonic Synthesizer
Alignment Delay
Pink Noise Generator
Auto-EQ with 28-band RTA
25 User Programs/25 Factory Programs

TheBartman47 wrote:
As for me, I'm in line for the Peavey VSX unit since it will be better suited for my needs.... 4-way pro concert system. This may be a bit more than what the average DJ needs, but then again, DJs may like it too, but still, my point is shop around and compare features, price, reliability, and testimony of others. You may still end up choosing the DBX DriveRack, but if you don't shop around, you'll never know if you got the one you like best.

I'm in total agreement with you here too. It looks like another company has finally come out with a unit that has many of the same features as the DriveRackPA. The added benefit I see with the Peavey model is that it can be easily connected to a computer and can therefore have its internal programs easily copied to another unit. That's great for backup, and also allows you to use a similar setup with a new unit without having to re-program the new unit.

Details are sketchy at best right now, but it looks like Peavey's VSX 26 unit will be several hundred dollars cheaper than DBX's computer-programmable DriveRack, the DriveRack 260. I'm looking forward to seeing more details on the Peavey unit so I can see if I want to change over to it, or whether I'll stick with the DriveRack. 8)