GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby TheBartman47 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:13 pm

SteveCie wrote:First of all, thy don't use DJ's at Satanists Meetings. The congregation chants throughout the meeting. And they usually don't sacrifice a goat, it's usually a chicken or a dog.

Missing the point... what if they DID want a DJ?

As for clients not hiring me because I might do an event for a group that might seem controversial shall we say? Rubbish.

If your market area doesn't have a problem with it, and you personally don't have a problem either, then it's no problem. However, it is a valid concern in many market areas.

I am not gay, nor do I believe that Gay is the way , or another way to live your life. So, I am not Gay for that reason.

However, it has been well established that a large amount of people are indeed Gay. And it has been long established that they have rights just like everyone else in our country.

And I agree, they have the SAME rights as anyone else, however they do not have SPECIAL rights, even though some lawers would have you believe otherwise.

One of those rights is to have the best DJ's in the business entertain for them. Plain & simple.

Actually no, that is not a "right". If it were a right, then that would be like saying everyone has the right to drive a mint condition 1957 Chevy. It is a privelege first of all for those who can afford one, and secondly those who can find one for sale (assuming they don't already have one).

It is business---nothing more.
Yes, it's a business, but so is the mafia. What you do in your business IS more than the business itself. There are legal and moral consequences to every decision you make, good or bad.

We ( DJ's) are not the morality police. We are business men.
You can not separate yourself from your own business. If you object to something personally, you do not have to suspend your morals and go against your concience for the sake of your business.

By the way, there are laws that make it a Federal Crime to discriminate for reasons of Race, Color, Creed,or Sexual Orientation.
This is not a correct statement. You can discriminate for ANY reason EXCEPT those specifically listed in the law, and sexual orentation is not one of them, and that law only applies to certain business functions like equal housing opportunity and equal employment opportunity. There is no such law for "equal DJing opportunity".

Be very careful if and when you refuse service to someone solely based on these issues.

You can be sued, even jailed, for violating these laws.

My best advice to all is to keep a good business sense about yourself, and do the best performance you can, regardless of who you are performing for.

I will tell it right now, I will most certainly refuse to DJ any event to which I morally object, and there is no law telling me I can't. If I were a realestate broker or an employer, that would be different.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby TheBartman47 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:20 pm

Hey-Mr.DJ wrote:I'm just disappointed however, that people will decide not to discriminate because it's illegal, rather than choosing not to discriminate because it makes the world a better place.

I'm just sayin'..


I disagree that it would make the world a better place. What would make the world a better place is that if people would be more discriminating in what they choose to do and accept and practice.

By the way, the word "discriminate" simply means to carefully choose or select. Discriminate is not a bad word, but some might think it is because it is always used in a negative way in the media. Example: Every time you choose one restaurant over another, you are discriminating, possibly based on food quality, or service quality, or any other feature that would make you choose one restaruant over another. Discrimination is a GOOD thing. Without discrimination, everything becomes a commodity. One of the main goals we've discussed here at DJGold is to get potential customers to be more discriminating in what DJ they hire. We know that there's a difference between a DJ with 20 years experience and all professional sound gear, and some high school kid using his home stereo equipment.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby len » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:24 am

TheBartman47 wrote:
By the way, the word "discriminate" simply means to carefully choose or select. Discriminate is not a bad word, but some might think it is because it is always used in a negative way in the media. Example: Every time you choose one restaurant over another, you are discriminating, possibly based on food quality, or service quality, or any other feature that would make you choose one restaruant over another. Discrimination is a GOOD thing. Without discrimination, everything becomes a commodity. One of the main goals we've discussed here at DJGold is to get potential customers to be more discriminating in what DJ they hire. We know that there's a difference between a DJ with 20 years experience and all professional sound gear, and some high school kid using his home stereo equipment.


While you are correct in your definition of "discriminate" you are incorrect in the usage. Based on the definitions at this site http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discriminate you are using the second definition. The law uses the first definition. Neither is wrong, but the context in which one discriminates makes all the difference.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby SteveCie » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:12 am

Bartman-

I am sorry but you are terribly mistaken on several points.
Night clubs have been successfully sued by persons who were refused admission due to their sexual orientation.
Businesses have paid huge settlements for discriminating against persons for their sexual orientation both in the hiring process and in the workplace.
Restaurants have had to make huge settlements to patrons whom they refused service to based on color, creed or sexual orientation.
This discrimination thing is all bundled up together.

Discrimination is simply something our country is hell bent on eliminating.
And rightly so. It is wrong to discriminate.

As for business and personal beliefs inter-mixing. That's up to you.
As for me, business is completely separate from my personal life and beliefs.
Business is where I earn my living.

I will play my music for anyone , anytime, and any place, so long as I am paid my rate, and treated respectfully, and is a legal assembly. I don't care if its a Civil Union, a wedding, mitzvah, divorce celebration, funeral, whatever.

You simply cannot discriminate when you are in business.

Given your views, and extending them if I may, I suppose you would not perform at a Bar or Bat Mitzvah because of your Christian beliefs.

No, you can't have it both ways. I know that I keep my personal beliefs separated from my business practices. If I didn't, I would not be able to stay in business.

One of my personal beliefs is that there should only be Rolling Stones Music played. But I know that people enjoy other artists and genres of music. So I have a 30,000 plus title music library of popular artists and genres of music.

Of course, I am being facetious, but I think I have made my point.
Whether you choose a different path is totally your prerogative.

But I think your homophobia will prove to be a detriment to your business in the long run
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby Hey-Mr.DJ » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:03 am

TheBartman47 wrote: People can believe whatever they want. But, they should be warned, believing something doesn't make it so.


And believing something is a sin because a 2000 year old book, written in very different times, says so, ALSO doesn't make it so...
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby Hey-Mr.DJ » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:08 am

SteveCie wrote:
But I think your homophobia will prove to be a detriment to your business in the long run


Let's just say, it's already started to to influence opinions and respect towards that business...
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby TheBartman47 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:31 am

SteveCie wrote:Night clubs have been successfully sued by persons who were refused admission due to their sexual orientation.

Source? I have no reason to believe this claim, but if remotely true, it probably was only a side issue and not what was technically sued over.

Businesses have paid huge settlements for discriminating against persons for their sexual orientation both in the hiring process and in the workplace.

Yes, employment and housing rights are legally protected, but choosing whether or not to serve a potential customer in most retail, rental, or service businesses is not.

Restaurants have had to make huge settlements to patrons whom they refused service to based on color, creed or sexual orientation.
This discrimination thing is all bundled up together.

Also, the threat of a lawsuit is often just as intimidating as an actual suit. Should such cases ever actually go to court, I think you would be supprised at how many of these the defendant would win. Unfortunately, they still have to shell out a lot of time and money to go through the legal process, when often it's cheaper for them to simply pay off and settle out of court, even though they would legally still be in the right.

Discrimination is simply something our country is hell bent on eliminating.
And rightly so. It is wrong to discriminate.

I disagree. There are legitimate times to discriminate, and times when it is wrong. Discrimination based on gender, race, or any other non-behaviour related matter of fact is wrong. No one can control what they are, but things that people do and can make a choice, we most certainly have the right to discriminate. As an example, the military still kicks gays out. However, if they can keep it to themselves, a.k.a. the "don't ask - don't tell" policy, an example of what you DO, not what you ARE, then there's no problem. But if they act out their homosexual lifestyle, then they will be promptly discharged.

As for business and personal beliefs inter-mixing. That's up to you.
As for me, business is completely separate from my personal life and beliefs.
Business is where I earn my living.

And there are plenty of other businesses who's owners do extend their personal beliefs, and are still quite successful. Chick-fil-a is one such excellent example.

I will play my music for anyone , anytime, and any place, so long as I am paid my rate, and treated respectfully, and is a legal assembly. I don't care if its a Civil Union, a wedding, mitzvah, divorce celebration, funeral, whatever.

You simply cannot discriminate when you are in business.

Again, I disagree, and especially where I live, I know that if word got out that I was DJing at a "civil union", I would loose a huge portion of my customer base.

Given your views, and extending them if I may, I suppose you would not perform at a Bar or Bat Mitzvah because of your Christian beliefs.

I would not have a personal problem with it, but since I do not know anything about Bar or Bat Mitzvahs, I probably would not be the best DJ for their event.

No, you can't have it both ways. I know that I keep my personal beliefs separated from my business practices. If I didn't, I would not be able to stay in business.

Yes, I can have it both ways, or rather, what kind of a comparison is Bar Mitzvahs with "gay marriage"? That's apples and oranges.

One of my personal beliefs is that there should only be Rolling Stones Music played. But I know that people enjoy other artists and genres of music. So I have a 30,000 plus title music library of popular artists and genres of music.

Of course, I am being facetious, but I think I have made my point.
Whether you choose a different path is totally your prerogative.

But I think your homophobia will prove to be a detriment to your business in the long run

Again, I strongly disagree. First of all, I have no homophobia, and I resent being accused of such. It is true that I disagree with their lifestyle, but I certainly do not fear it, and in fact, I have a personal friend who is as gay as the ace of spades. He even gave the ulogy at my grandmother-in-law's funeral! I disapprove of his lifestyle, but I accept him as a person with rights the same as anyone else. However, if he ever chose to have a civil union, I would not perform at his event.

And again, it would NOT be a detriment to my business in the long run. In fact, as I said earlier, if I were to DJ at a "gay wedding", I would most certainly loose a huge portion of my customer base.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby TheBartman47 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:41 am

Hey-Mr.DJ wrote:
TheBartman47 wrote: People can believe whatever they want. But, they should be warned, believing something doesn't make it so.


And believing something is a sin because a 2000 year old book, written in very different times, says so, ALSO doesn't make it so...


Actually, it does. If God determines the definition of what is sin, then what he says is sin, is sin. Whether or not we accept it is irrelevant. You can choose to think "x" is not sin or "y" is not sin, but if God says it is, then it is. If you don't believe it, then that is like a blind man saying he doesn't believe in colors because he can't see them.

Like it or not, our society, especially the legal system, is still originally based on God's law as revealed in the Bible. Ever been to Washington DC? Do you know what people and objects are carved in stone on many of the buildings? The supreme court building has Moses holding the 10 commandments in the middle with all the other prominit law-related historical figures facing toward him. And in several other places in the building are the 10 commandments engraved in stone or other decorative pieces.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby TheBartman47 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:52 am

Hey-Mr.DJ wrote:
SteveCie wrote:
But I think your homophobia will prove to be a detriment to your business in the long run


Let's just say, it's already started to to influence opinions and respect towards that business...


A homophobe (which I am not) in LA most likely would loose a great deal of business, but here in Texas, just the opposite is true. Y'all can think of me what you want, it won't bother me the slightest. But I also know some will respect me for taking a stand.
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Postby djmc » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:18 pm

Hey, I respect everyone's opinion on this matter.

Truth be told, once Barack Obama becomes president....I hope that americans will still be free to discuss these issues openly without being labeled as 'bigots' or 'homophobe'.

Every part of this country is different.

My daughter now lives in Berkeley CA, living in a dormitory high-rise (on the 8th floor), with a wide range of gender preferences available.

The attitudes in college towns like Berzerk-ley, Davis, or even Austin TX....is going to be way different from middle amerikkka

My best business judgment says to "ACCEPT ALL BUSINESS FROM ALL FOLKS WITH MONEY" no matter what their gender preference of that buyer.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby len » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:26 am

TheBartman47 wrote: But if they act out their homosexual lifestyle, then they will be promptly discharged.


It's not a "lifestyle." If you think people "choose" to be gay and suffer all the insults, the degradation, the homophobia, you're mistaken.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby TheBartman47 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:33 pm

len wrote:
TheBartman47 wrote: But if they act out their homosexual lifestyle, then they will be promptly discharged.


It's not a "lifestyle." If you think people "choose" to be gay and suffer all the insults, the degradation, the homophobia, you're mistaken.


Sorry, but you are mistaken. It most certainly IS a lifestyle. People will suffer insults, degredation, and persecution if it's something they strongly believe. For example, the early Christians were severely persecuted under Rome, and even today, when a Muslim converts to Christianity, they are disowned by their family and even face the posibility of death for thier choice. Or for a less extreme example, a New York Giants fan living in Texas would suffer insults and degredation, but his choice to like the Giants instead of the Cowboys is still that... a choice.

And if you say people are born gay and have no choice, that is yet to be scientifically determined, and there's actually much evidence against it, but should it someday prove to be so, that is still no excuse for choosing to follow one's own impulses. To suggest otherwise would then be to excuse the paedophile or cleptomaniac of their behaviour because they are "born that way".

For the record, my official stance is "laissez-faire", and on any and all marriages, I believe the government should not be involved in the first place. Why do we need a "marriage license" anyway? I'm against licenses in principle because a license is the government giving you permission to do something that without it would be illegal. Do you need the government to give you permission to get married - even plain ordinary traditional? And for gay marriage, the government should just but out all the same. That's between them and God and no one elses business.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby Hey-Mr.DJ » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:44 pm

TheBartman47 wrote:
len wrote:
TheBartman47 wrote: But if they act out their homosexual lifestyle, then they will be promptly discharged.


It's not a "lifestyle." If you think people "choose" to be gay and suffer all the insults, the degradation, the homophobia, you're mistaken.


Sorry, but you are mistaken. It most certainly IS a lifestyle. People will suffer insults, degredation, and persecution if it's something they strongly believe. For example, the early Christians were severely persecuted under Rome, and even today, when a Muslim converts to Christianity, they are disowned by their family and even face the posibility of death for thier choice. Or for a less extreme example, a New York Giants fan living in Texas would suffer insults and degredation, but his choice to like the Giants instead of the Cowboys is still that... a choice.

And if you say people are born gay and have no choice, that is yet to be scientifically determined, and there's actually much evidence against it, but should it someday prove to be so, that is still no excuse for choosing to follow one's own impulses. To suggest otherwise would then be to excuse the paedophile or cleptomaniac of their behaviour because they are "born that way".

For the record, my official stance is "laissez-faire", and on any and all marriages, I believe the government should not be involved in the first place. Why do we need a "marriage license" anyway? I'm against licenses in principle because a license is the government giving you permission to do something that without it would be illegal. Do you need the government to give you permission to get married - even plain ordinary traditional? And for gay marriage, the government should just but out all the same. That's between them and God and no one elses business.


First homosexuality is akin to Satanism and the KKK. Now it's the same as being a pedophile or a kleptomaniac?

This thread reminds me of a conversation my wife had with a colleague down in Austin, Texas. She wasn't sure of the time difference and asked what the time was down there.

"1953" was the reply...

Y'all are just gonna loooove the sixties!
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Postby dokai » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:24 pm

In all fairness, Bartman also compared it to Christianity, Islam, and being a Giants fan. :hahaha: The difference he's not mentioning is that acting on the impulses of pedophilia and kleptomania hurt people, whereas being in a same-sex civil union is a decision between consenting adults.

Guys, this is a hopeless topic. I've stayed out of it so far simply because I KNEW it was hopeless when it started. But it generated hits, which point back to Matt's website, thereby increasing his ranking, right Matt? 8)

Regardless, I have never heard of anyone changing their position on a major issue like this due to what they read on a DJ forum. However, continue on if you really think it's going to matter.
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Postby TheBartman47 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:33 am

Exactly dokai. And as mentioned, being a Giants fan doesn't technicaally "harm" someone else either, but it still ruffles other people's feathers. And does paedophilia technically "hurt" people? What if the person in question was turning 18 the very next day? The law says a few seconds before midnight on that day, that they are incappable of being a consenting adult, but after the stroke of midnight, all is fair. Where's the logic in that? I'm sure we all would agree that a 10 year old certainly isn't capable of making adult descisions, but who thought the arbitrary point of 18 years old? In centuries past, even 16 years old was common to get married, and in many other countries, that is still not uncommon.
And for same-sex unions, who then is to say that it does or does not hurt other people? Some would say kids seeing two men kissing in public would scar them emotionally for life. Maybe, maybe not. But for one thing, I do not think that is for the government to descide. It is a lifestyle choice, and the government should neither promote nor inhibit ANY lifestyle, so long as their ACTIONS cause no harm to other persons or property, nor should the government require any other private person to engage in commerce with anyone else they choose not. (And I said "private" above because obvious exceptions are public utilities, use of public roads, etc.)
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Postby dokai » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:10 pm

I'm reluctant to generate any more traffic on this thread, but I felt that this needed to be clarified, especially if people were going to compare this to other "lifestyles".

Pedophilia refers to sexual desire directed toward children. Most young men or women about to turn 18 don't qualify, since the courts usually judge this based on whether or not the victim is prepubescent. Statutory rape is the best that could be pursued, and that assumes that the "age of consent" in whatever state we're discussing is 18. In some states that age is as young as 16. Regardless, there's a big difference between having sex with someone that's not quite 18 and being a pedophile. Having sex with a child is wrong, period. Let's not compare that to two consenting adults having sex with each other, ok?

I'm out of here.
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Re: GAY weddings anyone (Same Sex, lesbian marriages)?

Postby sheba24 » Fri May 08, 2009 7:02 pm

I have no problem with this as long as the money is right.
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